John grew up in December 1167. He had been at most 21 and maybe young than just that in case his daughter Joanna came into this world. She may was in fact brand new eldest of the many youngsters he fathered by the their certain mistresses.
1187 Summer - John into the France when Chateauroux was being besieged 1187 Summer 23 - truce 1188 The month of january. 30 - Henry efficiency so you can The united kingdomt, maybe that have John when you look at the tow 1188 June - Henry directs John back again to Normandy, crosses away from 1189 June 12 - John within Ce People's whenever disarmed by the Henry's purchase, following John fled otherwise is added out getting coverage 1189 July 6 - Henry I dies during the France 1189 Aug. 12 - Richard brings John back into England that have your 1189 Aug. 31 - John partnered so you're able to Isabelle regarding Gloucester from the Marlebridge 1189 September. 3 - Richard crowned within Westminster Abbey 1189 Oct. - Richard directs John towards the Wales so you're able to subdue brand new rebellious Welsh 1190 Feb. - John summoned to Normandy and you may pressed toward oath never to lay feet with the England for three years 1190 June - Richard goes on crusade [John holidays their oath] For our aim, it is considered that the very first several months, plus the most most likely going back to Joanna to have started conceived, is the 1187-nine months. 1187 - John spends around the year in France 1188 - John possess returned to The united kingdomt within the January, but by the summer is distributed back once again to France, where he appears to have stayed 1189 - John seems to be inside the France January - August, going back so you're able to England inside the August when preparing for their relationship for the 31 Aug. In the event the John made not any web sitesi longer unrecorded output so you're able to The united kingdomt, it seems that he spent about 80% regarding his time out of January 1187 up until their marriage, in France . He had been will eventually considering the State off Mortain, within the Normandy (before Richard's coronation).
The above mentioned advice, given the months therefore the undeniable fact that Joanna try delivered in order to The united kingdomt from France for the 1203 to have their unique matrimony so you're able to Llywelyn, lends credence towards the idea that Joanna and her mother have been away from French/Norman supply.
Considering and John's really-recognized philandering during this period, truth be told there is apparently of numerous applicants toward role from mother off Joanna!
Once a separate a lot of time look but not, I’m able to pick zero shadow out-of an excellent Clemence de- Dauntsey into the the newest facts
My personal earlier in the day blog post provided what you to definitely Paget indicated that they was Clemence de Dauntsey, exactly who partnered Nicholas de Verdun. I believed that it was the brand new Nicholas and you will Clementia to help you whom Henry 111 provided the newest infant custody away from Susanna (just like the good hostage) inside 1228. I did look for but not, the newest opinion of just one genealogist which clearly mentioned it as…’ I believe that individuals (the newest genealogists) have established that there was zero such people due to the fact Clemence de- Dauntsey. One identification of one’s wife from Nicholas de Verdun is a mistake from the Paget!’
Clemence ce Boteler was created on the 1175 during the Steeple Lavington, Wiltshire
I am happy to believe that end, because the next investigation of the info of your own 2nd Clemence ended up a lot more fruitful.
Clemence le Boteler married Nicholas de- Verdun within the 1202 (his second spouse just after their matrimony so you’re able to Joan Fitz Piers. Mention, which relationship is not shown) during the Alton, Staffordshire and so they had one young child, Rohese de- Verdun who was produced inside the 1203 otherwise 1205 (died. Feb 1247).
In the event that, actually, Joanna is caused by an excellent liaison ranging from John and you may Clemence ce Boteler (who would had been aged doing 14-fifteen at the time), it might had been very difficult to the Le Boteler relatives to obtain the ideal spouse to have Clemence. In fact certain 10 years solution before a great ily?) having a trustworthy English nobleman and you may assets owner, Nicholas de- Verdun. Leaving aside for now the possibility that Nicholas had fell in love with the latest twenty-seven year old Clemence and you will planned to wed their unique, it could were important for John to provide Clemence which have particular possessions of her own in order for she turned into a far more attractive honor for their future husband.